Hypnotherapy is a wonderful healing art and offers a great method of reaching goals, motivating oneself, as well as eliminating many problems. Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy as terms are often used interchangeably. There are several methods of hypnosis, and these include stage hypnosis for entertainment purposes; Self Hypnosis, which is a form of inducing yourself to hypnotized state and offering yourself suggestions; guided meditation, which is essentially the same thing as hypnosis, but generally taught or led in groups; and lastly hypnotherapy, which is using hypnosis to bring about a change or therapeutic benefit.

The late Charles Tebbetts, a famous hypnotherapist in Seattle, defined hypnosis as, “All hypnosis is self-hypnosis, and the power is in the mind of the person being hypnotized.” I think very much this is a true statement, as the power is in you to induce changes. Thoughts often turn into action, then snowball into results. Proper thoughts will only lead to proper action, leading to proper results.
Hypnotherapy basically consists of someone guiding your thoughts, ideas, beliefs and then you are lead into a trancelike state, offering you thoughts that you wish to follow. This trancelike state is like a focused concentration, such as when you feel enthralled in fascination by something. Others may describe it as somewhat like a “blanking out”, just as when you drive a long distance on a long stretch of highway.

Roy Hunter, a well known hypnotherapist in the Pacific Northwest, states that hypnosis is basically a form of “guided meditation”. Once you are into this state, the hypnotherapist guides you into a deepened state and offers you a suggestion to your subconscious mind. It is natural for the human mind to focus concentration such that one is able to access and control the subconscious. These 3 steps are the major key to hypnotherapy. Once these are done, repeated sessions may assist in anchoring a suggestion in the subject. One might think that basically hypnosis is a method of uploading new programs in to the mind.

Many of the modern disciplines and forms of alternative medicine are derived from hypnosis. NLP, psychotherapy, sports psychology, life coaching, advertising, communication all use hypnosis principles to bring about a change. Many self-help books all employ hypnosis methods. Even many of the Tibetan vajrayana and yogic practices make use of similar techniques to bring about changes to the mind.

One can’t be hypnotized against their will, or be made to do some foolish things like jumping up and down and quacking like a duck as most Hollywood movies and television shows would have you believe. The hypnotically induced state is relaxing and comfortable.

I have creatively combined acupuncture and hypnotherapy to treat certain patients and have experienced great success in depression, anxiety, weight loss and smoking, as well as reaching goals. My “Acuhypnotherapy” is a great development in combining these 2 different but useful arts. Basically in my method, I use the acupuncture to induce the trance state, then offer indirect or direct deepening methods, followed by the implanting of a suggestion. For example, if a person want to lose weight, I interview them as to their goals, plan, and steps to reach their goal, have the entire goal time bound and simply plant all the steps that will lead a person to success. Once known, these are written down to coincide with the patient’s beliefs and goals. I then induce them by inserting needles into certain points while they are lying down relaxed, then allow them to rest briefly. I may test the level of the trance or use methods to deepen the mental focus, then simply repeat to the patient what they were wanting to overcome or change.

Properly done, hypnotherapy can benefit one in bringing about changes in behavior, anxiety, eliminate poor habits, problem solve, overcome strong negative emotions, bring about healing to the body, control pain, and deal with substance abuse. The list can be endless, as many problems of the body begin in the mind.

If you’re seriously considering hypnotherapy, do so with a person that you have rapport with and check for their qualifications through certification. Many life coaches, psychotherapists, MFT’s, psychologists, and psychiatrists have some experience with hypnotherapy or can refer you to a reputable one.


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I am a practitioner of Master Tung’s Acupuncture, which differs greatly from Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) Acupuncture that is typically taught in schools here in the USA and in China. Many people might wonder who Master Tung was, and my information here will introduce him to readers here.

Master Tung Ching-chang was probably the greatest Acupuncturist in the last generation in Taiwan. So great was his fame, that he literally had over 100 patients per day which he saw in his small clinic. His fame was due to his extreme efficacy with acupuncture needles, and he only used a few per treatment.

Master Tung arrived in Taiwan after the Communists took over in China in 1949 along with Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalist party and began a successful practice in Taipei, Taiwan. He was an Acupuncturist in Taiwan for 26 years, and throughout that time, he allegedly treated over 400,000 patients, with about a fourth of them treated at no charge. For these humanitarian deeds, Master Tung was decorated with an award of “Representative of Fine People and Fine Deeds” in Taiwan.

As the personal acupuncturist to Taiwan President Chang Kai Shek, his reputation was so great that he was asked to visit Cambodia between 1971 and 1974 to treat Cambodian President Long Nuo, who suffered from hemiplegia due to a stroke.

Master Tung was also decorated by President Chang Kai Shek with a “Certificate of Honor” in the field of Chinese Medicine, which is an amazing accomplishment because initially the Nationalist Party was not responsive to Chinese Medicine, due to the fact that Sun Yat Sen was a Western trained physician.

Master Tung’s Acupuncture is truly a living treasure and storehouse of Chinese Medicine, untouched by modern TCM, and a glimpse into the family systems of Chinese Medicine as taught in previous generations. It is itself a conglomerate of classical acupuncture and pricking methods, flexibly applied, and proven clinically with practical, often with quick and dramatic results. Currently many practitioners of acupuncture may use a lot of needles and needle around the local area. Not so with Master Tung’s Acupuncture. For example, if a person has neck pain, a TCM trained acupuncturist would typically needle the neck area. But a Master Tung acupuncturist will apply a few needles to either the wrist, ankle, knee, shoulder, hip, or thigh to treat the pain. The advantage is very clear, as you can give feedback immediately to your acupuncturist upon insertion. When needles are in the neck, one has to wait until they are removed to give feedback! For the acupuncturist, the flexibility of the method is extremely attractive.

Done properly, Master Tung’s acupuncture is painless, quick, efficient and requires only a few treatments if problems are acute. A full range of problems are treated, including allergies, anxiety, arthritis, asthma, back pain and sciatica, Bell’s Palsy, bronchitis, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, high blood pressure, colitis, common cold and flu, constipation, diarrhea, ear pain and ringing, eczema and other skin problems, edema, frozen shoulder, GERD, headaches, IBS, impotence, insomnia, laryngitis, menstrual problems, menopause, nausea and vomiting, numbness and neuropathy, pain of all types, PMS, prostate problems, rheumatism, stress, stroke, tennis elbow, TMJ, and Trigeminal Neuralgia with just a few needles. It is almost inconceivable as to the efficacy of this form of acupuncture. In my own daily practice, I am still amazed at the immediate results I see with this system of acupuncture.

Master Tung’s Acupuncture in the USA is practiced by Young Wei-chieh of Rowland Heights, CA, Esther Su of San Jose, CA, Jim Maher of Oklahoma City, OK, and myself. I had the fortune of learning from Young Wei-chieh and Esther Su, and did extensive research in this system of acupuncture and practice it daily in Pasadena, CA. Currently, I am sharing with this great system with acupuncturists and Medical Doctors nationally and internationally through my organization called ITARA - International Tung’s Acupuncture Research Association. We seek to preserve, educate, research and pass on the legacy of Master Tung’s work through seminars, private trainings, and other mediums.

As students and practitioners of Master Tung’s Acupuncture, our practice is to benefit others in a practical, simple, direct, economical manner and it is hoped that the reader can use seek out a Master Tung Acupuncture practitioner to experience these amazing points - the same points I use daily in my clinic with amazing results!




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Why Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy for Cancer patients?

Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy can help those suffering with cancer to prolong life, enhance quality of life, and aid in recovery. In China, Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy are used as primary treatments for the treatment of cancer, in this country there are legal ramifications with this approach, so most western cancer patients often choose to combine their biomedical treatment with alternative therapies. They are not quite sure where to turn to and may try any treatment alleged to treat cancer, or even self medicate with herbs and other substances. Often chemotherapy, surgery and radiation cause damage to healthy tissues, as well as diseased tissues, and weakens the immune system. This is where Chinese medicine can be very helpful. Chinese herbal medicine is the therapy of choice in treating the side-effects experienced by oncological treatments, and is proven in its effectiveness.

According to Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) theory, cancer is caused by the stagnation of energy and blood in the body due to strong emotions, poor exercise, poor diet, inadequate rest and hereditary factors which are triggered from poor health. Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy eradicates disease through the balancing and moving stagnant energy and blood. .

How Does Acupuncture Work?

According to the principles of TCM, energy flows through the body via 12 primary meridians and 8 extra channels. To strengthen the flow of energy , or remove blockages in the meridians, acupuncturists insert a few disposable tiny, sterile, flexible needles just under the skin at certain specific points (called acupoints) along these channels. These acupoints are associated with specific body function, and when stimulated, they trigger the immunity system to provide almost instantaneous pain relief and cessation of symptoms ailing the patient. For example, if you are suffering from nausea and vomiting from radiation or chemotherapy, a few carefully selected points might be stimulated on your ear, scalp, hands, feet, wrist or ankle. TCM practitioners believe that acupuncture stimulates the body's internal regulatory system to nurture a natural healing response without having to directly treat the site of injury.

Acupuncture stimulates the body's internal regulatory system to nurture a natural healing response.

Centuries of empirical observation indicate that acupuncture leads to real changes in the body. The insertion of acupuncture needles has an effect on the autonomic nervous system and homeostatis. Recently, numerous studies have shown that acupuncture stimulates nerves, send a signal up the spinal cord to the brain, leading to the release of endorphins and monoamines, which are natural chemicals in the body that block pain signals. This may be one explanation why acupuncture is so good at stopping pain, but does not fully explain the healing response one has with other disorders. More research is needed to fully explain the acupuncture mechanism.

What To Expect

When first visiting a practitioner, there will be a thorough medical history inquiry, the pulse is taken on both wrists, the tongue is examined, and the body may be palpated to check the site of disease or pain. A treatment plan will be discussed. Depending on your ailment, you may also have your first acupuncture treatment and Herbal Therapy prescription at that first visit. In general, visits occur initially two or three times a week until therapeutic results and stabilization have occurred. After that, follow up visits will be scheduled as needed. Therapeutic exercise and meditation may also be prescribed to aid in overall well being.

Does it hurt?

Acupuncture needles do not hurt like hypodermic needles used to give injections or draw blood. The needles are hair-thin, and may feel like a tiny prick or pinch upon insertion. Sterile disposable needles are always used. Once the needles are inserted, the practitioner may manipulate them manually or send a weak electrical current through them to increase the energy flow. The needles are typically retained for 20 - 45 minutes, depending on the ailment. Different people experience sensations of a "tingling", "distended", "electrical" or "full" feeling, whereas others may feel numbness or nothing at all. Most find the sessions relaxing, and fall asleep during the treatment, waking up refreshed and feeling great.

Herbal Therapy in a nutshell

In our society, herbs have now come into vogue, but there are dangers. Although herbs are natural substances, they can be dangerous if wrongly or self prescribed. Herbs are combined with other herbs of similar function to reduce the danger of toxicity and increase synergistic effect. In our clinic, we use the finest Herbal Therapy formulas in pill and powder form for convenience. There is no need to be inconvenienced by the taste, smell and time preparing raw herbs. There are also herbal lotions, liniments, herbal wraps, patches and pastes that may be used externally, depending on your condition.

Other Physical Medicine

Practitioners may also use moxibustion, a form of heat therapy on acupoints, to stimulate healing, depending upon the ailment. Other techniques include cupping, Gua Sha (scraping), massage and manipulation therapy, often complimented with dietary advice.

How soon can I expect results?

Some patients notice rapid improvement after just a few sessions. In acute pain cases, one or two treatments may lead to dramatic results. In chronic conditions that may have taken years to develop, treatment may take longer.

Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy effectively treats:

Anxiety

Auto-Immune Disorders

Back Pain and Sciatica

Chemo and Radiation therapy Side Effects

Constipation

Diarrhea

Dizziness

Ear Pain and Ringing

Eczema and other Skin Problems

Edema

Headaches

Infections

Insomnia

Migraines

Nausea and Vomiting

Numbness and Neuropathy

PAIN of all types

Stress

Weight loss

Does my Insurance Cover treatments?

Currently many insurance carriers cover treatments. If your insurance company has acupuncture benefits, you may qualify for treatment.

In summary:

Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy can help prevent cancer by strengthening the immunity system, insuring adequate rest, balancing strong emotions, promoting proper diet, and avoiding hereditary triggers that can lead to developing tumors.

During oncological treatments of surgery, radiation and chemotherapy, Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy can be a safe adjunct for an already taxed immunity system. We can boost immunity, help dissolve nodules, reduce anxiety, stop headaches, treat nausea, vomiting, dizziness, lack of energy, prevent peripheral neuropathy, treat chemo induced menopause, and restore hair loss to maintain quality of life and give you time with your loved ones and put your business in order.

After you've gone through treatments of surgery, radiation and chemotherapy, we can restore you to good health and help you recover from whatever symptom is ailing you.

In summary, Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy can help you before during and after treatment of cancer.

About Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, MSOM, PhD:

Robert Chu (Chu Sau Lei) began practicing the martial and Chinese healing arts since childhood. Robert is a Licensed Acupuncturist and Herbalist, specializing in the Master Tung Acupuncture and Optimal Acupuncture methods in which he effectively treats pain, industrial injuries, sports injuries, and neuromusculoskeletal disorders. Dr. Chu also treats a wide variety of internal diseases including hypertension, hyperlipidemia, diabetes, psoriasis, thyroid disorders, gynecological disorders and side-effects from cancer treatments. He is appointed by the Industrial Medical Council as a Qualified Medical Evaluator (QME).

Dr. Chu was formerly affiliated with the St. Vincent Medical Center , as the first fulltime Acupuncturist on staff and treated cancer patients with Acupuncture, Herbal Therapy, Qigong and Tai Chi. Dr. Chu is a former faculty member of Samra University of Oriental Medicine in Los Angeles, where he taught acupuncture. He has also taught Tai Chi and Qigong at Loyola Law School . Dr. Chu volunteers at Pasadena's Wellness Community , where he does monthly lectures for cancer patients and a weekly lifestyle/nutrition and Qi Gong class. He is occasionally featured as a speaker for the American Cancer Society . In July of 2004, Dr. Chu was selected as the Acupuncturist to Olympic athletes at the Olympic Trials held in Sacramento, CA.

Dr. Chu also lectures nationally and internationally on Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine to provide continuing education to MD's and Acupuncturists. In 2003, he founded the International Association of Optimal Acupuncture and Clinical Chinese Medicine to spread his effective clinical system. He also serves as President of the ITARA - International Tung's Acupuncture Research Association, which he founded in 2005, to preserve, standardize, educate, and research new applications of the Tung family system of Acupuncture with integrity, open sharing, and a goal to help end suffering in fellow beings. He has been decorated as an honorary member of the Finnish Traditional Chinese Medicine Society of Acupuncture and Herbs and a therapist member of the National Register of Acupuncture Therapists in Finland. Dr. Chu is also listed as a Master Practitioner of Oriental Bodywork Therapy and Master Practitioner of Tui-Na Manipulations, awarded by the International Association of Tui-Na Therapies in London, England. He has lectured at Emperor's College of TCM , CSOMA , and other functions as a dynamic and entertaining speaker.

In 2004, Robert was awarded a Ph.D. in Buddhist Ayurveda from the non-profit college Ayurveda Healing Arts Institute in Berkeley, California.

Currently, 40 - 60% of Dr. Chu's practice is devoted to treating breast and prostate cancer patients. He may be contacted at:

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, MSOM, PhD, AHG
Oasis Vitality Center
2502 E. Washington Blvd
Pasadena, CA 91104
(626) 345-0441
Cell/Voice Mail: (626) 487-1815

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What led me to a study of TCM was a lifelong practice of martial arts. In martial arts, aside from the artistic perfection of strikes, kicks, joint locking, throwing and ground fighting, the health giving benefits of opening up the channels and collaterals for qi flow, learning meditation to calm the mind, we specialize in trauma, both healing and inflicting. My sifu said, "it's easy learn how to injure someone, but is difficult to learn how to heal someone." How correct he was. A punch to Ren 17 can have devastating effects, a kick to UB 40 can bring an attacker to his knees in practice. As a consequence, in order to survive the training, many martial arts teachers specialize in die da shang ke - literally "fall and strike traumatology", which are overlapped by TCM's wai ke (External diseases) and gu shang ke (Orthopedics and Traumatology). I was fortunate to be able to study the rudiments of die da shang ke under my Wing Chun sifu, Kwan Jong Yuen and my Hung Ga sifu, Yee Chi Wai. Through the years I also met other famous martial artists and TCM doctors like Kenny Gong, Lui Yon Sang, Chan Tai Shan and others. My study of martial arts was interspersed with the study of traditional formulas for traumatology, including powders, wines, pastes, decoctions and pills, their applications, modifications and processing. Many martial artists are also known for their specialty in tui na, as basic exercises to develop the body in the tui na like Shaolin neigong (Internal training) or yi jin jing (Sinew Changing Classic) are part of the traditional martial arts. These exercises develop the limbs so that a martial artist trained in tui na can produce better results and a martial artist would probably know the body better than a non martial artist in movement and cause of injury.

In this article, I would like to introduce how to create a basic die da jiu (fall or strike wine) which can be used as a topical liniment for common contusions and bruises. Here is a list of herbs you will need:

Ru Xiang (Gummi Olibanum) 12 g

Mo Yao (Myrrh) 12 g

Chi Shao (Radix Paeoniae Rubra) 12 g

Mu Xiang (Radix Saussureae seu Vladimiriae) 12 g

Hong Hua (Flos Carthami Tinctorii) 9 g

Tao Ren (Semen Persicae) 9 g

Dang Gui Wei (Radix Angelicae Sinensis)12 g

Pu Huang (Pollen Typhae) 12 g

Da Huang Tan (Rhizoma Rhei - Charred) 9 g

Tian Qi (Radix Pseudoginseng) 12 g

Xue Ji (Sanguois Draconis) 9 g

Ding Xiang (Flos Caryophylli) 9 g

Those of you who know your Bensky Formulas, might recognize this Rx is very similar to qi li san (seven thousandths of a tael powder) from Liang fang ji ye (Small collection of fine Rx) or even the die da wan from Quan guo cheng yao chu fang ji (Collection of Country's Prepared Herbals) but addresses pain, blood movement and stop bleeding more. The measurements of the herbs is also different because this is more of an external use liniment. This Rx is fine for bruises, minor contusions, and sprains, but to make it a better Rx, we should modify the Rx according to our uses. For example, if there are broken bones, we should add Xu Duan (Radix Dipsaci Asperi), Wei Ling Xian (Radix Clematidis), and Tu Bie Chong (Eupolyphaga seu Opisthoplatia). If our focus is pain, add chuan xiong (Radix Ligustici), yan hu suo (Rhizoma Corydalis), yu jin (Curcumae), jiang huang (Rhozoma Curcumae Longae), ji xue teng (Radix et Caulis Jixueteng), san leng (Rhizoma Sparganii Stoloniferi) , mu tong (Caulis Mutong), di long (Lumbricus), su mu (Lignum Sappan), or wu ling zhi (Excrementum Trogopteri seu Pteromi) according to what your needs are. If there is pain in a certain area, we should add in Qiang Huo (Rhizoma et Radix Notopterygii) for the upper back, Du Huo (Radix Angelicae Pubecentis) for lower back, Bai Zhi (Radix Angelicae Dahuricae) for front of head, Tan Xiang (Lignum Sappan) for the chest, Niu Xi (Radix Achyrathis Bidentatae) to guide to the lower extremities, Xuan Fu Hua (Flos Inulae)to guide downwards, and Ma Huang (Herba Ephedrae) to guide upwards to the skin. We can even get more specific to use the guiding herbs enter particular channels by simply choosing herbs that go to that channel. For internal bleeding, add Di Yu (Radix Sanguisorbae Officinalis), Da Ji (Herba seu Radix Cirsii Japonici) and Xiao Ji (Herba Cephalanoploris). To make the Rx more fragrant to stop pain and open the orifices, add bing pian (Borneol) she xiang (Secret

Io Moschus Moschiferi) su he xiang (Styrax Liquidis), and to address wind, cold or damp Bi, you can also modify it with expel wind damp herbs, such as fang feng, gui zhi (Ramulus Cinnamoni) bai hua she (Agkistrodon seu Bungarus), hu gu (os tigris), lou shi teng (Caulis Trachelospermi Jasminoidis), hai feng teng (Caulis Piperis Futokadsurae), wu jia pi (Cortex Acanthopanacis Gracilistyli Radicis), and kuan jin teng (Flos Tussilaginis Farfarae). For more traumatic swellings, add Ban Xia (Rhizoma Pinelliae Ternatae), Chuan Wu (Radix Aconiti Carmichaeli), Cao Wu ( Radix Aconiti Kusnezoffii) and Tian Nan Xing (Rhizoma Arisaematis).

I caution the person who is not knowledgeable in herbology to not put all the ingredients together to form one "super die da jiu"! I'm not sure what he or she would create! Look up the proper dosage of the herbs to use, and choose what you need and for what specific use in mind. Just for some background information, sometimes herbs are substituted for one another based on local availability and for financial reasons. Be wise in choosing what you need. For example, Hu Gu (Os tigris) may not be available because it is illegal. Wu Shao She (Zaocys Dhumnades) and Bai Hua She make fine substitutes (and no, you don't need both) and whichever is less expensive will work fine. Pregnant women should not touch or use this medicine.

All in all, one small Rx can turn into literally thousands of variations from one functional base of herbs in a Rx. When others boast their secret die da recipe is the original or more secret, they're simply blowing smoke and trying to say they're the best. It depends on what the function of the formula is for. I have a saying, "Let application be your guide; let function rule over form." It is applicable to medicine or martial arts.

You will also need a clean glass gallon bottle or jar and enough gin or vodka to fill a gallon. If you prefer a more traditional approach, of equal parts alcohol and water, you may use 50% spring water and 50% Everclear grain alcohol to make one gallon. Traditionally, mi jiu tou (rice wine head) is used - again, a gallon's worth, but the alcohol content is weaker than vodka or gin. One prepares the herbs by parching them through pan frying (no oil) in a wok or simply toasting all the herbs in a toaster oven to enhance the blood moving effect. No need to char them excessively, lest you lose all the active ingredients. Place the herbs in the container and pour the alcohol over the herbs. The alcohol used is always of a good drinking quality (ethyl alcohol), in cases where traumatic injury may be also internal. (Of course, if your die da jiu has poisonous ingredients, it would not do well to ingest it internally.) Beware of going the cheap route with isopropyl alcohol, you are simply making a poison batch of die da jiu. Traditionally, we never use isopropyl alcohol. Seal the container so that it is air tight and date and mark the bottle, and store in a dark place. Shake the bottle occasionally. In about 3 - 4 months, your die da jiu will be ready and will be superior to any on the market because you made it and you know specifically what you designed it for.

The herbal wine you created can be used simply by massaging it in to the affected area, or for use with tui na. You can also use the wine in the technique of fire cupping (hou guan), by placing a small amount in a cup, just enough to wet the bottom, spread it evenly and ignite it, then apply to the affected area. In doing this, I would caution that practice and common sense be your guide - lest you burn and scar your patient and have a nice liability lawsuit on your hands.

This is a brief introduction to die da shang ke and the common herbs used. In future articles, I will focus on plasters, pills, decoctions, their applications and modifications and how to create them.

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Michael Guen holds a Ph.D. in psychology, is a physician of Oriental medicine and a practitioner of various natural therapies. He is a 5th generation disciple of the Yin Fu ba gua quan lineage under Grandmaster Gong Baozai, and a thirty year student of Yang family tai chi chuan. An author, he resides in Santa Rosa, California, where he practices clinical medicine, teaches life practice and martial arts.

Can you give us a little background on your Chinese Martial arts training and experience? How long have you practiced? What have you studied?

I have been studying martial arts for thirty years. In 1973 began practicing Wu style tai chi chuan in Boston Chinatown. A year and a half later I began studying Yang style tai chi with Ginsoon Chu, who is Yang Shouzhong's second disciple. In 1977 I lived in Taiwan for two years, where I sought out instruction from many teachers. I was studying xing yi quan from the wife of Chang Chunfeng and from a disciple of Chen Panling, when I met Gong Baozai. After that initial trip to Taiwan, I went back to Asia nearly every year until 2000, when Gong Baozai and his wife passed away.

For ten years after I met Gong Baozai, I continued to study other styles in Hong Kong and Mainland China, mostly Yang family connections. During that time I met and received instruction from Yang Shouzhong as well as briefly from Chen Longxiang, the lineage descendant of Yang Chengfu's disciple in Sichuan, Li Yaxian. My other brief exposure has been to Five animal Shaolin, Wing chun, Aikido, Shuai jiao, and more recently Brazilian jiujitsu.

The martial arts I have sampled and fought against has been quite wide. But the steady reference point throughout has been the two orthodox internal teachers I met-Gong Baozai of Yin Fu ba gua quan and Yang Shouzhong of Yang family tai chi chuan. Each impressed on me completely different aspects of mastery. Grandmaster Yang possessed the marvelous dong jing , understanding force, and tai chi power; Gong Baozai brought me to a complete comprehension of the inner and outer mechanism of internal arts, which included a mysterious highest attainment called hou qi ba gua "latter steps of ba gua" otherwise known as, sheng ren zhi lu , "way of the saint."

I understand you traveled throughout Asia, would you tell us about some of your experiences?

What I didn't mention was another major influence that radically affected my orientation towards martial arts; from age twenty-one to thirty-five I had frequent encounters with xiu dao de ren , representatives of several orthodox Daoist lineages in Taiwan and the Mainland, where these masters invited me to ru men and join their sects. Some even invited me to chu jia (leave home) and renounce the world. In addition to teaching me meditation, philosophy, medicine and spirituality, I learned from them a certain perspective on martial arts-that it was a natural preparation to letting go of all worldly desires to transcend the wheel of karma.

The spiritual influence bestowed by these Daoist teachers and teachings has had a huge impact on the course of my life, as for years I struggled with the decision to stay in the world or leave the world. Imagine me, a suburban Asian American kid contemplating the renunciate path, and the confusion it brought? Therefore, from early in my training, I had been introduced to an aim for martial arts that went beyond technical mastery alone. Even though I love fighting, I never since meeting these people viewed fighting as the end all accomplishment of martial arts.

What was the great Yang Sau Zhong like?

As a student of Yang Shouzhong's second disciple from the age of nineteen to thirty, I had the opportunity to visit Yang Shouzhong three times. For accuracy sake I need to qualify my relationship with the great grandmaster of tai chi chuan-it was not as a formal student. The first was upon introduction of Master Chu; the second was on a group trip with Master Chu; and a third was a private trip to visit Grandmaster Yang.

In the brief yet intense interactions I had with Yang shouzhong, he was extremely generous to me. From direct physical contact and detailed corrections and instructions, he gave me an entirely different view of tai chi than found in the mainstream. Everything was different: its temperament, the nature of the extraordinary power, and a standard for practice of the forms that I have not seen rivaled by any practitioner of tai chi.

The standard of authenticity I hold for the internal arts thus comes from having for years compared and weighed the methods, styles, character and dispositions of these two pure line masters. I saw that the original schools of tai chi chuan and ba gua quan known today were developed and preserved for generations as independent inquiries. All Gong Baozai and Yang Shouzhong ever did was one style their entire lifetime; which means that if it is actually true that they were both fourth generation lineage holders of the original traditions, each system held a reality that was complete and self-sustaining unto itself. This is a big statement. For one thing, it implies the systems in being self-sufficient, were originally resistant to blending.

Throughout my twenties I fought Gong Baozai's recommendation to develop my character and scholarship; at the same time, I was so taken by the internal power of Yang's tai chi, that for those years I invested most of my energies into training in tai chi chuan. However, the principles Gong Baozai imparted never left me.

Regarding Ba Gua, I know that you have studied different lineages of the art. Why did you feel the need to study various versions rather than sticking to one?

I actually had only brief exposures to other ba gua styles, most before I met Gong Baozai. Like many of my tai chi colleagues in the 70's, I was fascinated with ba gua and took various workshops offered by different teachers. Until I met Gong Baozai, none of the styles I studied put me in conflict with other internal styles. I could keep practicing ba gua zhang, tai chi chuan, qi gong, xing yi quan, all with no disagreement. However, the open body style Gong Baozai taught was so different from what I call the "turtle back" posture. Opening my chest, pulling in my abdomen and sticking out my buttocks seemed contradictory to what I had learned was "internal," and it at first made me feel weak. This is the reason I didn't practice his style seriously for many years; I didn't possess the emotional strength to hold my body open that way. Another reason was that because it was practiced so radically different from other internal styles, dedicating myself solely to ba gua quan would have alienated me from the greater martial arts community.

Even as I delved into other styles, it always clung in the back of my mind that there was something special about the method Gong Baozai taught; the entire feeling and flavor was different. Later I discovered that my training in other systems built up my body in a way that made it "armor plated." I resisted Gong Baozai's entire teaching approach of family style and the physical method because it threatened me. It was too open and intimate, making me feel vulnerable with my feelings; all of which I was not yet ready to face until I matured emotionally in my thirties.

Confucius said, "At thirty one stands up." Gong Baozai interpreted this as meaning that one first has a sense for living for the sake of oneself. Before one has matured sufficiently in this respect, no matter how hard he or she may try, they are unable to embrace living beyond one's own self-interests. In my late twenties I fell quite ill from incorrect practice: fighting too much, taking too many blows, and indiscriminately abusing people. There was a passive anger I wasn't in touch with that was inverting inward and destroying me. Gong Baozai was the only martial arts teacher whose system, in offering an equal balance of warriorship, scholarship and medicine, could save me from my violence.

What is unique about the training that you received under Gong Baozai? How is the application different from Tai Chi? How do you choose what system you use for application?

The tai chi chuan I learned was very authentic. As a martial art it is supreme. Gong Baozai said that his teacher Gong Baotian acknowledged the superiority of tai chi chuan. Yet he also commented that present day tai chi has lost the thread of the balancing element in medicine. When I refer to medicine here, I am speaking of a sophistication of knowledge that goes way beyond qi cultivation, acupuncture and herbs. These, Gong Baozai said, are surface manifestations of a deeper root in medicine, whereby one understands the nature of change. The sole emphasis of the tai chi training I received was on developing rooting and power. For quite a few years I practiced eight to twelve forms a day, then in the evenings practiced pushing hands, sparring, and the other two-person training. I learned that even though one might have lousy technique and form, with all the qi and strength building in tai chi it would be hard for another to hurt your body with their bare hands.

Exposure to Gong Baozai however, changed my perspective on all of this. Tai chi and ba gua turned out to be like apples and oranges. Because of differences in purpose and approach to practice, they cannot be blended. Not wanting to lose either, I tried for years to find the common link, all to no avail until just recently. I describe this experience in detail in my book Way of the Saint: Missing link between Chinese medicine, mysticism and martial arts.

The system Gong Baozai taught is impossible to study with the same spirit as other martial arts. Everything about it causes one to have to let go of old preconceptions of what martial arts is, especially the value of strength. This is a very extensive question you ask, but I can answer it at the root, which is how the philosophy is used. I am aware there are many versions and interpretations of tai chi, some coming from temples with extensive theoretical frameworks and ties to Chinese medicine, qi gong, and I Ching. But my criteria for authenticity are the families such as Yang, and Chen from where the Yang came. The people that popularized tai chi in the public arena were martial artists, not monks. I do not know the temple styles of tai chi. In the terms of the Yang family, I know that the main application of yin and yang is as directly applied in exercise and practical application. It is principally a martial art, only secondarily a system of therapy or medicine. With training one develops dong jing , interpreting force, fan tan jing , repelling power, someone touches you and in an instant they lose their balance or are bounded away. This is what I learned from the Yang Shouzhong style. No excessively round circles, no winding up, no whipping; the real practical thing that is based on merging body and mind. That is the marvel of the in-the-door Yang family training I caught a glimpse of. You can't get near them; the strength in the hands and body are so great that they could crush you with little effort at all.

Despite this appeal, something was wrong with my tai chi training. I feel the system either lost or never had the medicine. Maybe by the time the families got them the medicine and mysticism was lost already. If Zhang Sanfeng did create tai chi in the Song dynasty and was a monk, it might have been a more elaborate and extensive in terms of medicine and mysticism. What the families I feel mainly got were its fighting aspect and a little of the self-cultivation, which though extraordinary, did not likely include the spiritual aspect.

By comparison, a version of an original temple martial art system was, I feel, retained in the transmission received by Gong Baozai. He claims to have learned it from Gong Baotian, who got it directly from Yin Fu. The depth of this orientation can be summed up by what Gong Baozai once said to me when I asked him how ba gua can be applied to life and self-defense. He said "ba gua cannot be applied to life, ba gua IS life!" That says it right there. The goal is not to find something-that will only kill it-but to seek the principles that already exist within you. This might seem Daoist but it is not. It is just natural and common sense, and the way to allow the body's full potentials to come forth. The more you pursue physical strength, the less you truly have it internally; the more you want to beat someone the less effective you will be in other aspects of your life. You might win a bout, but the effort you put into getting those skills may leave you short-sighted and handicapped in the bigger scheme of your life. Just look at the private lives of many successful pugilists as an example of chi kui , losing out in larger respects. The lives of many students of internal martial arts I have taught, even though not as extreme, are not much different in the lack of balance and true fulfillment.

At this point, my tai chi and ba gua can be practiced together, but only because I've given myself over to the principles of ba gua. The open body posture of ba gua can encompass tai chi; but the closed turtle back posture of tai chi, for all its effectiveness in fighting, is unable on the physical, emotional and mental levels, to embrace the expansive consciousness of ba gua. I agree with Gong Baozai that tai chi must have once had the medicine-emphasis on separating out the organs with movement-maybe even to a greater depth of profundity than ba gua quan, but this knowledge may have since been lost.

What is the resultant sum of physical martial arts training?

I think you are talking about power. I used to have enormous rebound power-I would give demonstrations for my club holding five men on my shoulder and pushing them back into a wall. But it was external and eventually made me sick. Maybe it was because I had not learned the complete tai chi method from the Yang's. But I'm not sure if I want to now, because of the bondage to power; it bred a restlessness and spirit that masked by politeness and propriety was always challenging and testing. One's world becomes very small-who is more powerful, who can push who, who is superior based on this criteria alone? This is the underlying dialogue I see masters promoting to their student's today. It has to be; power is the martial artist's basic claim to self-worth in this modern era. Gong Baozai did not call that martial arts, but "pugilism." True martial arts, he claimed, embodies medicine, mysticism and character, which as a consequence curbs.the tendency toward imbalance in the strength realm. His saying "employ principle above strength, rather than strength above principle" sums it up.

There is never any guarantee that practicing a superior system will lead to great accomplishment, but the general ambition of ba gua quan is higher than most martial arts. Engaging in self-inquiry under the guidance of Gong Baozai I came to understand many things about Chinese culture and spirit, about human nature and the natural course of life. It is the development of a strong intelligence that makes the body strong and capable, of a caliber above the norm. This is what makes one superior as a fighter; not the endless conditioning of body parts and killer techniques. Superiority as a human therefore has nothing to do with fighting or training. Those who need to prove their self-worth by fighting are in many respects like adolescents.

In contrast, Gong Baozai offered an "art," a path to freedom rather than a technical craft. He hardly met others who were willing to take up this kind of bid-that is why he had so few students. Few had the faith or patience to try to understand where he was coming from. Gong Baozai's idea of formlessness was essentially to be able to walk into any culture and be so well rounded, well read, and capable and resourceful intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, that you not only feel comfortable, but have no points to defend. One must possess mature self-understanding before form can be relinquished; one needs the courage to let go of one's own culture and open oneself up to others. Aside from the supreme fighting abilities of Gong Baotian and Yin Fu, they needed to be worldly in their perspective to hold such esteemed positions in the Imperial Palace.

This expanded awareness is reflected in ba gua quan's style of fighting as well. Gong Baozai taught one to follow the opponent and use softness to overcome hardness just as tai chi; but the approach taken to develop skills is slightly different. In ba gua training there is more incremental breakdown of the joints from head to toe, and more focus on mastering the footwork. As it came from Lohan it has preserved the full array of techniques one would find in Shaolin, including pressure points, sweeps, jump kicks, throws, locks, flying takedowns, etc. Strong rooting is developed, and so is the ability to be generous and forgiving in word and action. All tolled, this expanded versatility of repertoire offers a broad range of social and physical options when dealing with an attack.

Tell us a little about the training/principles/concepts of the Gong Baozai Ba Gua system.

Some main concepts are chiefly: principle above strength (form); three essential standards: the principles of structure, medicine and technique; the six correspondences; inner and outer unification; self-propagating growth, one-effort, following the natural course. The method for developing strength is very profound, as one learns movement and strength in relation to oneself rather than first learning strength by applying it to an outside body. Integration of the mind with one's own body, character and conduct with one's teacher, tradition and other relationships in one's life, are all vital to gaining unwavering mind-based strength. Most essentially, the movements and postures need to be in accordance with physiology. The inner organs and outer body regions have close functional correspondence with each other. The invisible barrier separating movement of the limbs with the internal organs must be transgressed.

I've heard He Jinghan is the inheritor of this system? What is his relationship to you?

He Jinghan is my lineage brother, and one of the inheritors of this system. I began training with Gong Baozai several years before him. For ten years we intensively researched this ba gua quan system together. Much of the teaching that came out of Gong Baozai was stimulated by us working together. Regarding a sole inheritor, Gong Baozai never declared one person as his sole cloak and bowl descendant. He may have wished it to be that way, but by the end of his life it was obvious that our circumstance made it impossible. None of his disciples had the opportunity from a young age to go deep. He Jinghan and I came into relationship with Gong Baozai having studied other styles; there was thus a bias he had to trouble shoot in order to align us with the pure ba gua perspective. When you look at the reality of our modern situation and lifestyle, in the face of such challenging aspects of this esoteric system that are so elusive and difficult to grasp, it is ridiculous to make such a claim. We are just struggling to preserve the pieces that we learned. Gong Baozai did manage to pass onto us practically the complete framework of the root ba gua quan system; but even he did not learn the qing gong (lightness skills) - the flying art, that his teacher had. In terms of embodying the principles fully in knowledge, skill and character-that is the only thing, in my opinion, that would entitle one to claim inheritorship. None of us has fully achieved to this level.

Gong Baotian told Gong Baozai that ba gua quan can never learned to the end. I am not talking about external forms, but the grasp of the three essential standards-principles of physiology, medicine and technique-to be able to fight in perfect adherence to these principles, living the mystery of change within the eight trigrams, five elements, and yin yang, in every moment of one's relationships.

Regarding our strengths, I would say that He Jinghan, Tu Kun-yii (another disciple of Gong Baozai in New Jersey), and I have each excelled in different respects. Gong Baozai named a total of twelve disciples. To get a well-rounded grasp of Gong Baozai's teaching it would be worthwhile to get to know more than one of us.

What do you think martial artists can gain through the study of this martial art? What do you think this means for western martial artists and their students?

Martial arts can stand to learn a true state of self-reliance and self-sufficiency, to a point that one's learning becomes so full that the concern for qi cultivation is transcended. Within the ba gua quan methodology is a distillation of the most essential elements of martial arts as a complete system of life practice. The ultimate attainment is a direct experience of inner outer unity in handling all of life's affairs. Once you feel the impulse arising from inside the organs, and how it is effortlessly connected with body mechanics through the five elements and eight palms, there is no going back to externalized strength. Thus in general this discipline can help to elevate the standard of martial arts with the highest potentials human beings are capable of. That foremost includes the natural graduation to service for community, the basis of a spiritual life, as an expression of superior scholar-warriorship attainment.

The benefits to western martial artists and their students can be great. It may help give martial arts a chance to be restored to the respectable position in society that it once was in Asia. It is because of a narrowing of scope that it is presently relegated to a special interest or hobby today. In fact, martial arts represents among the highest level of integration possible by humans.

Would you go so far as to make a comparison of the effectiveness of your Ba Gua Quan and what is commonly known as Ba Gua Zhang?

We need to define "effectiveness." In fighting, I feel individual talent is a bigger factor than any system, regardless of the system one practices. For health, there are also many individual factors such as hereditary and social background that play significant roles. Regarding the difference between ba gua quan and what is commonly known as ba gua zhang, I feel ba gua quan, with the attention paid to separating out the body parts, enables one to gain more self-awareness, and ultimately to be able to change and deal with the stresses of life very effectively.

Do you think different 'schools' (styles of the same method) are important?

I think every school has something valuable to offer; assuming that each most likely embodies at least some memory of the essential system. Studying them can bring us more clarity about what the original possibly looked like.

The challenge for all practitioners from lineage holder to student, in this respect, is to transcend the form of one's practice. I do not know what Yin Fu learned from Dong Haichuan. There is no proof whether it was Dong Haichuan or Yin Fu who brought in the Lohan aspect to ba gua. Gong Baozai himself told me that ba gua quan is only a li, principle. So I don't really know what the original system was. What we do know for certain, however, is that the system Gong Baozai received is so extraordinary and all encompassing of the essence of philosophy, medicine, mysticism, martial arts from ancient Chinese civilization, that it seems impossible one person could have created it. It's simply too vast in scope-for instance, the 64 posture pao chui "cannon fist" form, and the reason it is done on the post-heaven diagram, each trigram representing one of the eight internal organs and body regions, with change between them based on the five element diagram overlaid on top of the eight trigram template-this was likely the product of generations of collective research. The only place it could have been developed, I feel, was in ancient temples.

What do you think is the goal of Ba Gua training?

To become a complete well rounded human being, equipped with the physical prowess, intelligence, wisdom and abilities, to deal with the world without fear, anger or prejudice, and if one is special, to contribute revolutionary advances.

Do you feel that you still have further to go in your studies?

Absolutely! From twenty-four years with him, Gong Baozai prepared me in the fundamentals, the relationship between character and movement, the expression of internal energy to outward strength, all based on development of the intelligence, and how this is not restricted to martial arts but extends to all the relationships and endeavors of one's life. Now it is time for me to take it deeper in my body. The fact that I am in my forties has brought about another concern I didn't have when I was younger, which is health and longevity, and passing the right idea to the next generations. Overall, I would say I've reach 70% of my potential; there's a long way to go.

Dr. Guen, how would you sum up the changes in martial arts that you've seen over the years?

In the thirty years I've practiced, there has been a move away from pure tradition to more synthesis of different styles. I think this evolution is good. There is a part of me that is saddened by the fact that in spite of the greatness of orthodox traditions, they in some way need to be let go of. A good example is Chinese medicine. Acupuncture needs to establish as a profession in its own right, but at the same time must defer to more effective modalities of treatment where it is not strong. This is the current complementary medical view of integrative treatment for illness.

How has your personal martial art (kung fu) changed/developed over the years?

It has changed from restless, insecure, with the need to intimidate people and force my will on them, to more ease, acceptance, following and contentment. I feel I'm finally getting a handle on how to take care of my health and life. The after effects of fighting used to stay with me constantly, getting trapped as tension in my emotions and physical body. I have since learned the correct way to train and harness great powers without as much negative side-effects.

Martial arts are nowadays often referred to as a sport. would you agree with this definition?

I share the same view as Gong Baozai that there is a marked distinction between sport martial arts and orthodox martial arts. Martial arts can be used as a sport; I was a full contact competitor in my twenties; the experience was invaluable. But the sport mentality is limited. As a life practice, I do not advocate the sport mentality. Gong Baozai taught that authentic martial arts absolutely cannot be used to compete, because the original techniques and philosophy are designed for life and death survival.

What general advice would you have for the martial artist?

To channel the warrior force inward and upward for development of the higher intelligence, in addition to outward and downward. Open the body and release repressed anger and fear, nourish the brain and open the mind. Use the powers one garners to heal one's relationships and seek deeper insight into life. The original temple standard of being a master meant far more than being a proficient technician or healer.

Who would you like to have trained with that you have not (dead or alive)?

In ba gua quan, Gong Baotian, Yin Fu and Dong Haichuan, of course. In tai chi chuan, Yang Shouzhong and his family predecessors. Any master of complete authentic systems.

What would you say to someone who is interested in starting to learn martial arts?

Look for a teacher who has definite martial art (fighting) skill, but who also fully embodies the principles of an authentic path. Quality teacher and method are required to teach you how to move the organs. If you can find the connection between the internal organs and external movement, then everything you do is in harmony with your higher wisdom; no matter what style you do, your practice will be correct.

What is it that keeps you motivated after all these years?

What motivates me these days is the feeling I get from practice, when all parts are operating together at once, this enables me to figure out ways to use the ba gua quan knowledge to heal my body and solve problems that come up in daily life. Another motivation is having the opportunity as a teacher to guide others on the path to fulfillment, knowing these strides are being taken to improve the future.

Do you think it is necessary to engage in free-fighting to achieve well ?

By all means. free fighting is essential to know martial arts. However, the losses are more important than victories. Street skills are important as well; where we don't have experience, we hold unconscious fear. At the same time, one shouldn't go out looking for trouble. I'd suggest that people allow the natural events and relationships of one's life to create one's lessons. That should be enough. This speaks of a core revelation of what Gong Baozai taught, that you cannot go out toward knowledge, but best let the opportunity for knowledge to come to you.

I feel the most important attribute for a fighter depends on their starting disposition. If you are of a kind disposition you must lose fear of hurting people. If you like to hurt people, you must acquire the capacity to hold back and feel compassion. If you are naturally crafty in personality, you must also master straight line force. If you are naturally straightforward and direct, you must learn how to be flexible and changeable.

What is-was your philosophical basis for your martial arts training?

For self-defense and self-cultivation: Chinese medicine and the philosophy of change. For community and service: knowledge that comes from study of the religions and spiritual practices of the world. Given the modern age, the traditional Chinese worldview alone is too narrow and limiting for me as a complete life path.

How do you think a practitioner can increase his-her understanding of the spiritual aspect of the arts?

A practitioner can increase his-her understanding of the spiritual aspect of the arts by cultivating mental and emotional awareness and self-control. The traditional way proposes such attainment can be gained through learning the correspondences between behavior, posture and the movement of the internal organs. Quite paradoxically, spiritual illumination and the capacity to render devastating force are the product of the same effort.

What do you consider to be the most important qualities of a successful martial artist?

Character. Living a life that is even, balanced, open and fluid.

Why would a person want to study Yin Fu ba gua quan today? What does it offer?

I personally feel that Yin Fu ba gua quan, even the complete the system, is not necessarily a discipline a modern person would want to learn. The world is different today; whatever we invest our time and energy in always needs to take into consideration the benefits and the costs. On the one hand it is fulfilling and romantic to experience the rigors of a real tradition under an orthodox teacher. On the other, the old ways in general have become obsolete. While original methods still uphold eternal principles, transmitting the shell of rules and techniques alone risks distorting one's energies, throwing one's judgment and perspective of life and relationships off track. The relationship between teacher and student must change above all, not to one of equality, because then a teacher merely becomes an information vendor rather than a harbinger of ancestral power and wisdom. The "feminine" principle is what I feel is missing in even the most upright traditional arts. Transmission of the live essence of Yin Fu ba gua quan in my generation already risked becoming forgotten. This has forced me the past ten years to examine in-depth the nature of community and relationships and differences in training approaches for women and men. Much of my writing and instruction on martial arts is about bringing forgotten material back out into the light.

Michael, could you begin by giving us some background on your book, "Way of the Saint", what prompted you to write such a book?

My main objective for writing Way of the Saint: The missing link between Chinese medicine, mysticism and martial arts , was to present the highest principles and standards of martial arts as presented by the original Yin Fu ba gua quan system. I wrote it for several reasons: as an exercise to get more personal clarity about the system, to fulfill my obligation as a lineage holder of this tradition, and for my students. It tells of my life with Gong Baozai, and the trials and tribulations of our relationship, as he endeavored to transform my beliefs from that of an ordinary martial artist to a more conscious feeling human being.

The book spells out the essential principles he taught. I tried to portray the keys underlying the methods in a way that would be understood by a diverse audience: people interested in Chinese culture, medicine, spirituality, martial arts, Asian-American studies, cross-cultural studies, and for both practitioners and non-practitioners alike.

How do you tie in your work in Acupuncture and the field of psychology?

It's been a rough road assimilating all these endeavors together. My greatest challenge has been to gather the insights from these various fields in a single presentation. Chinese medicine as applied to life practice is the subject matter of the first two chapters of the Yellow Emperor's Classic on Chinese Medicine . This is where I feel the insights from the ba gua quan tradition taught by Gong Baozai most aptly apply. The power one accrues in self-cultivation indirectly leads to effectiveness as a diagnostician and therapist. It opens the range of how one can heal; for instance, I teach my patients simple yet profound things about their posture, movement, personality, character and relationships, and their association to their illness. I counsel them on how to release deeply entrenched blockages and substitute old patterns with new ones to achieve their greatest personal potential.

I also teach that illness is delusion; that delusion is denial of fulfillment of one's higher dream of service. I know this goes beyond martial arts and even traditional Chinese medicine, but this is where I feel medicine needs to go in order to evolve to its next level of really be useful to humanity beyond symptom identification and reduction. Acupuncture and psychology today remain in my opinion "middle class" because they chase behind the symptom and have little means to help one bring an individual, much less humanity, out of the deep seated fear engulfing the planet. The only way for people to effect real change in their personal lives, I feel, is to connect with the world cause. For that the patient as well as adept must have a means to develop "actualized" repertoires that do not have fear at its base. To do this requires a deep understanding of 'change,' as compared to working from familiar conditioned response patterns to merely cope with the world. Yin Fu ba gua quan above all else, establishes the criteria for living from faith and hope, rather than resignation and fear. Imagine this spirit permeating the health professions and martial arts!!

Thank you, Doctor Guen for interviewing with us. You've certainly given us some great insights!

The pleasure has been all mine, Robert. Thanks for inviting me.

How may we reach you?

A website, www.vertical-force.com , will be up soon with seminar schedule, products, and other information. In the meantime,

Phone: 707-526-2675

email address: michael@guensystem.com
website: www.guensystem.com

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by Jose Fraguas

Q: How long have you been practicing the martial arts?

I started martial arts during my youth, about 7 years old. My grandfather was a practitioner of Shaolin martial arts and Tai Ji Quan and several times when I acted up, I was punished by having to stand in a corner in a horse stance. Little did I know that was basic training in the martial arts.

Q: How many styles have you train in?

I trained primarily in Shaolin, Hung Gar, and Wing Chun Kuen in my youth. As I matured, I became interested in Xing Yi, Tai Ji and Ba Gua, and Mi Zong Lama Quan. I was also one of the last disciples of the late master, Lui Yon Sang, the grandmaster of the Fei Lung Fu Mun (Flying Dragon/Tiger System). I was fortunate to have received the complete transmission from him personally. Despite all my crosstraining, I view my personal style as Wing Chun. I practice and teach Tai Ji Quan also, but I feel Wing Chun is closest to suit my personality.

Q: who were your primary instructors?

I studied with many teachers in New York Chinatown, and wanted to explore the Chinese martial arts as extensively as I could. I thought all systems had their good and bad points, and I thought to cross train and improve myself with the various systems. Also, as young man, I was also seeking for a system that suited me best personally, and I wanted to sample what I could. NY Chinatown had all systems - 7 star praying mantis, white crane, Lion Fist, Hung Ga, Bak Mei, Lung Ying Mor Kiu, Hung Fut, Northern Shaolin and many other systems. Some masters in Chinatown were masters of legitimate systems, some masters just made things up.

At age 14, I studied some Wing Chun basics with a friend of mine, Jeung Ma Chut, who studied the Jiu Wan system. Later another friend, Eric Kwai, who was a student of Moy Yat, and I had a Gong Sao match, and although I beat him, his close quarters fighting skill was apparent, so I wanted to learn some of his basics in exchange for some fighting techniques. Eric suggested I continue my studies with one of Moy Yat's top students, so I learned from Lee Moy Shan. Because of a falling out with Lee Moy Shan, I left to study the Gu Lao and Yuen Kay Shan systems of Wing Chun under Kwan Jong Yuen, a good friend and generous teacher. I later went to seek out Master Hawkins Cheung in Wing Chun and have been with him since 1988. He is truly a master and an honorable man and it is his methods that I primarily use.

I trained in Hung Ga under Yee Chi Wai (Frank Yee). Yee is the successor to the Tang Fong system of Hung Ga, and I studied the major forms and weaponry of Hung Ga with him. He also introduced me to Mi Zong Lama Pai master, Chan Tai Shan, whom I studied with.

I studied Yang style Tai Ji Quan and Hebei Xing Yi under KMT General and Chiang Kai Shek's personal bodyguard, Wang Shin Liu. Wang Lao Shi was a General in the Kou Min Tang army and studied military science in Japan. He was a student of Yang Cheng Fu's disciple, Zhu Gui Ting. When the Japanese invaded China, Wang led many troops to do battle with the Japanese. Wang was also a master of Xing Yi which he learned from Zhu Gui Ting, who studied with Li Cun Yi, so I am proud to learn these martial arts from a man who used the arts in the battlefield. Wang went to Taiwan when the Communists took over China, then later retired in NYC.

I also studied briefly under the late Kenny Gong, exploring his Xing Yi. Master Gong taught me the Five Elements, Za Shi Chui and 12 animal forms, and I was very interested in the internal power that was cultivated in Xing Yi.

I was one of the last disciples of Fei Long Fu Mun under the late Lui Yon Sang. Master Lui was 83 years old at that time and many of the top young masters in NY Chinatown studied with him. He was interesting because his art primarily consisted of weaponry, most notably the pole and the spear. His fist art came from one of the greatest Southern fist masters of all time - Leung Tien Chiu. Lui taught primarily San Sao and two man work when it came to empty hands. His art was simple, yet very devastatingly effective.

Since most of Lui's students were experts in other systems of martial arts, I was introduced to Yin Fu Ba Gua under my fellow training brothers, Chan Bong and Thomas Lee, who studied under Wang Han Zi. I later continued more studies of Yin Fu Ba Gua Quan under He Jing Han of Taiwan.

Q: Would you tell us some interesting stories of your early days in kung fu training?

New York Chinatown was a mecca of Chinese martial arts and always exciting to meet other practitioners. I would often go and visit my friends from other schools and we would engage in "Gong Sao" (Fighting matches) and exchange with others. Most of the time, we would want to see the forms of who we fought against - this led to comparison and trading arts. For example, I would fight a guy and if I didn't do so good, then I would study fighting methods and a set with him so I could improve my weakness. In this way, I became familiar with the strong points of many styles, and saw how each approached their training from. It was real exciting and fun. Also, there are a lot of family associations in Chinatown - Oak Tin, Jung Shan, Chinese Restaurant Worker's Association which sponsored spaces for visiting or local masters and I might have some friends who were studying or practicing there. I would often go and visit other martial artists and try to pick their brains on how to improve, or just to compare how their martial arts were practiced.

Q: Were you a 'natural' at martial arts - did the movements come easily to you?

I was no natural - in fact, I was rather skinny and uncoordinated when young. I was tall and lanky compared to the average Cantonese. I did have one advantage - I had great flexibility with my legs, and usually beat most southern fist practitioners with my legs.

In martial arts, natural athletes rarely last. The martial arts are an acquired skill; they have to be learned. Some people learn things quickly and just burn out quickly. I also think if you have a burning desire to learn, then you will excel and continue practicing. There's a saying in Chan (Zen) - "No doubt, no attainment; little doubt little attainment; Big doubt, big attainment." I'm a firm believer in that. Today's experts and masters all had to study real hard to get where they are today. No one just gets it handed to them. Some think they can buy martial arts knowledge. I think money may open up the doors, but when it comes to using it, you have to have it in your body, so hard work is essential.
Q: How has your personal martial art (kung fu) has changed/developed over the years?

I think it develops as you mature. For example, in my youth, fighting was something that was natural - you did it for survival or for the sake of ego. Martial arts were something that led to big delusions - jealousy, hatred, ignorance. I see most practitioners still stuck there today. I saw a lot of guys get involved with the secret societies and with underground activities, and saw many lives ruined. I think that ultimately in martial arts, a small Dao (Way) should lead into a big Dao (way) - you use the arts to temper yourself and as a method to cross over from greed, anger, stupidity. This way you can be more in harmony with yourself and your world.

Physically, one has less time to train when they get older, so one has to continue to practice basic "gung" (work) - that is, basic exercises to maintain strength, flexibility, and timing. Nothing leaves the basics. Advanced work is just the basics applied.
Q: With all the technical changes during the last 30 years, do you think there is still 'pure' systems such as tai chi chuan, choy lee fut, wing chun kung fu, et cetera?

Pure? I think there is no such thing as "pure" - it's an illusion. For example, everyone has their own personal style - you eventually express it when you reach the highest level where art and personality match. Martial arts are both an art and a science. In Wing Chun, the art is scientific because it gives you tools and you properly replicate them, you can have the same results. The art is flexible in that it allows for personal expression. Personal expression is the art part. You learn the tools, then apply them; you don't learn the fighting forms of your master to copy their style. For example, no one in Yip Man Wing Chun fights exactly the same as Yip Man did - it is not a style that you learn to fight with and duplicate your master. The system is based on the most effective use of human body and proper timing and positioning. Everything is dependent upon the moment and the energy that the opponent gives us. People are not entirely correct when they think that Wing Chun is only scientific and based on physics - the basics are the science, but the expression in application is the art. In Wing Chun, nobody teaches you step by step what to do in Chi Sao (Sticking Hands) or what to do when attacked spontaneously - you have to develop yourself to utilize it. We're not a paint by numbers system.

All of the founders of the above martial arts must have had some training elsewhere in order to create their system, so only people under that rigid thought of "lineage" try to be pure. Ed Parker said it best - "When pure fist meets pure flesh - that's pure." Too many Chinese people are hung up with pure lineage, authentic transmission, from the grandmaster. I see Americans buying into that also, because they were trained in that way. I think it's rigid. You study martial arts for you - not for what names you can drop. All those names and credentials don't help when you're being attacked. This is why I have a motto, "Let application be your sifu; let function rule over form." In that way, you really weed out the non functional and learn to use your core system.

Q: May we talk about different wing chun styles or methods? And if yes, would you elaborate on that?

Sure. There are many schools of Wing Chun. There's Yip Man, Yuen Kay Shan, Gu Lao, Pao Fa Lien, Chi Sim Weng Chun, Pan Nam and others. One thing I must say is that in the USA, many come out of the woodwork with secret family systems which claim to be "original" or the most "traditional". Often these claims are just a form of puffery, based on greed or ignorance. In China, we used the marketing claim, "Old, original, or traditional", whereas here in the USA, we say "new and improved". Often these individuals claiming their Wing Chun is the first or oldest is a load of crap - people just want to gain money or fame through the "secret lineage". There are a lot of giveaways and contradictory statements when people come up with this stuff, but often, people are gullible and want to really believe in this fake stuff. I guess some people can't tell the difference between "Chop suey" and Peking duck.. I guess unless one is scholarly and actually spends time to look things up, one can fall for the tricks and advertising.

Wing Chun is probably developed most in the 1850's, although some say that it has it's roots are connected to events in Southern China to overthrow the Qing Dynasty that began 150 years earlier. In my opinion, all historians are speculators, since they weren't there. The late Dharma Master Hsuan Hua, the 45 th Dharma successor to Chan (Zen) Buddhism said, "Historians are just people having nothing to do and looking for something to do. They want to investigate history, in other words, to discover what era this person lived in and what period that person lived in. It is like having eaten one's fill, one has nothing to do, so one putters around with meaningless things.In my opinion, these kinds of people are undesirable. The more they research, the more trouble they create, saying, "This is counterfeit, that is real." What is real in the world? What is counterfeit? Nothing! If you think it is counterfeit then it is counterfeit. If you think it is real, then it is real."

I think his scolding is full of Chan flavor. If you want to believe your lineage is real and you cultivate it and develop it to a high level, then it is. Who is to say something is legitimate or not? What historians try to do is to prove their hypothesis based on facts they gather and create a paradigm for you to believe in. Pay your money and take your pick! When I looked into the history of Wing Chun with Rene Ritchie, my co-author of Complete Wing Chun, the first thing I told him was every branch will say they're the first, most original and best. You can't avoid the politics. And practically every branch of Wing Chun has said they are the oldest, most original. This is all human nature.

They all say that to bolster their egos or want fame, after all, Chinese think the most original is best. So in a sense, this is just a marketing ploy. Chinese knew and understood the power of myths and legends, knowing that the Chinese mind enjoys a mystery and likes to find things out if they are real or not. In fact, in Chinese culture, it is often a custom to exaggerate a friend's credentials when introducing him to another friend. It's a kind of puffery - the only thing is you have to find out whether it is real or not and in what context.

It's the same with Wing Chun or any other martial art. For example, the origins of the Shaolin Temple - Damo (Bodhidharma) went to Shaolin, he didn't found the temple, it was already there. Nor did he create Zen or Chinese martial arts. People (usually retired warriors and generals) brought the arts to the temple. The saying "all martial arts are from Shaolin" is an exaggeration. The secret society origins are also fables, popularized through myths and powerful images of Chinese culture. I think even the average Chinese knows the fables and take them with a grain of salt, but the average American has no idea of the culture and lore of the Chinese, so take things as fact.

And you know what? You can tell when these people are trying to say their style is special and most original exclusive of every other related style, after all, they're the ones trying hard to promote that lineage. If a person says that Wing Chun is over 300 years old, then it is true for all the branches as well, not just one branch, after all, they all are linked through one important period of time - the time of the Red Boat Opera people of the King Fa Hui.

I realize what I say might be offensive to some, but if we have our differences, then I salute you! I can only say these things after I have looked into so -called secrets revealed and researched the history of China from the Ming to the Qing Dynasty period.

Personally, I think it is despicable when people lie and talk about their made up origins as real, but if a style has merits, then I try to focus on that. I think some people just want to fill their rice bowl with food and make a living, keep their business open, attract more students, keep their wives happy and put their kids through school.

Of course, the best known is the school of Yip Man, and within it, there are many branches based on what the first generation students of Yip Man interpreted. For example, Leung Ting's association is known worldwide and reflects his teachings. William Cheung is also very famous and teaches his interpretation of what Yip Man taught him.

I was lucky and was able to study many Wing Chun systems in the Yip Man family, but I concentrated on studying more of what Hawkins Cheung taught me. Hawkins' style I feel is unique, his Wing Chun emphasizes body structure and stresses combat applications. When I went to him, I already knew the entire system and had practiced Wing Chun for over 11 years. Hawkins told me that knowing forms wasn't enough - I had to concentrate on application. I thought, who is this cocky guy? Later I found out that he could back up everything he said.

When I studied with Hawkins, I found that the real DNA of Wing Chun is body structure, and this is what permeates in the application of it. What I was lacking in my previous study of Wing Chun was how to use body power. When I learned this, it made sense, for after all, Yip Man was a small man - how could he beat bigger, huskier people like Leing Sheung, Tsui Sheung Tien, Lok Yiu and Wong Shun Leung, unless he had a mastery over body structure? Some have speculated special or secret techniques, or another secret system, but this is not so. The truth is one either develops body structure or not.

I've tried this method on advanced practitioners of Wing Chun - it didn't matter the lineage. What I noticed was a small handful of people had body structure. Some "experts" came to visit me, and I used test one on them - test one is simple pressure on their chest while they stand in a basic stance. Most topple over - even people with over 10 years experience! It's a shame. People with so many years experience, and they can't even stand in their most basic stance. One person I trained privately was toppled over constantly, because he did not know how to adjust his steps and body structure. He was thrown into the bed of his hotel room more than 40 times.

I also went to HK and Taiwan visited the elders of the system, including Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Sheung Tien, Lo Man Kam, Koo Sang and others. I also studied with William Cheung for a while. So my grounding is based mostly on the Yip Man system. I've also had the opportunity to study the Yuen Kay Shan system thoroughly, under my Sifu, Kwan Jong Yuen, and through my co-author, Rene Ritchie. I think the Yuen Kay Shan system is very rich in teachings and tradition. I was also fortunate Kwan Sifu also passed on the Gu Lao Wing Chun to me, a system that was brought to Gu Lao village by Leung Jan, Wing Chun's most famous fighter. The Gu Lao system, as you might expect, lays emphasis on combat application.

Through the years I met people open and willing to share their systems. For example, the outstanding exponent of Chi Sim Wing Chun, Andreas Hoffman, taught and showed me his version of Weng Chun, which is a completely different system than Wing Chun. His stances are wider and deeper, and their body and pole work are excellent. I was fortunate to learn his applications of throws and joint locks first hand.

Through a sworn brother of mine, Hendrik Santo, I have been fortunate to study completely the Yik Kam Siu Lien Tao system, which in my opinion, is probably the forerunner to today's version of Wing Chun. This system is unique because it emphasizes the body structure, much as I do in my Wing Chun, and that it is composed of one set that embodies the three forms in Yip Man Wing Chun. The Siu Lien Tao system is comprised of movements from Fujian White Crane boxing as well as Emei 12 Zhuang - an esoteric Buddhism health/combat/meditation system. Yik Kam Siu Lien Tao emphasizes the 36 Tian Gang hands which can be used to cure or injure. The system also has a short dummy set, pole and knives sets and features sticking hands, although from a different platform than what is seen in the Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan systems.
Q: Do you think different 'schools' (styles of the same method) are important?

Not really, as I think it is the practitioner that cultivates his martial arts is most important. In the end, everyone develops their own personal style and if they have followers, a "school" ensues.

For example, one of my early Wing Chun teachers was a very mediocre teacher, but I persevered and studied real hard and was not afraid to experiment with what suited me. Of course, I also consulted with other practitioners, seniors, and elders. Hawkins taught me something great, he said, "Yip Man would tell us not to believe him regarding application of Wing Chun, but to test out our Wing Chun for ourselves." I think this statement had a profound effect on me. Prior to studying with Hawkins, I was always concerned if I learned something correctly, but Hawkins said, it's the application that counts the most. In other schools people always care if they were passed down the art correctly, but I find even if it is transmitted "correctly", but if one cannot make it work, it's worthless. This is why I laugh at all the claims of "original" Wing Chun - if you can make it work, then it is "original". If you can't make it work, then it is BS.

Even Wing Chun has a saying passed down from our ancestors, "Sao Gerk Seung Shiu, Mo Jit Jiu" - Hand and feet defend accordingly, there are no secret unstoppable techniques. When people come out with secret lineages of Wing Chun, I question their intentions.

Q: What is your opinion of other sport competitions like Kickboxing and of other fighting events such as the UFC? Do they represent the real martial arts?

I think these events are still basically sports, because the level of contact is agreed upon and there are rules. I would call these events "martial sports", just like boxing, but they do not reflect martial arts. I think these sports produce superb athletes with excellent condition and good all round skills, but the intent to kill someone is not there. True martial arts deal with a life or death situation and it also looks to heal the body, mind and spirit. Too many are practicing to be brawlers or fighters, but a true martial artist develops the soul of a Jun Zi - Confucious' idea of a nobleman - not necessarily in prestige or rank, but rather in character.

Q: Do you think that kung fu in the West has 'caught up' with the East as far as skill level? (If not, please elaborate on what is necessary to reach that level)

Yes. We've probably even surpassed them. The best people always come over here as this is the land of opportunity. I also think that people in Asia struggle to make a living and have less freetime to cultivate and develop themselves. I used to think the skill in HK or China must be superior to here, but after I visited in 1987 and later saw people who trained on the mainland, I was not impressed with the level of skill. Basically, if you're good here, you're also good there.

Q: Martial art are nowadays often referred to as a sport. would you agree with this definition?

The way most people practice is a sport, a recreation. I think martial arts is not a sport, but rather an art form. It is in a unique category. Martial arts is still the best name, rather than being classified as a sport.

Q: Do you feel that you still have further to go in your studies?

I think one can always improve. The most important thing is to maintain my level and improve daily. One can get better in timing and positioning and with regards to experience, and in this way, intuition can take over. But it must be grounded in logic, and mastery of your arts.

Q: Do you think it helps kung fu physically to train with weapons?

Definitely. The weapons skills are a complement to the empty hand skills. They teach you how to move with weight and how to dynamically apply your power and momentum through an apparatus. Few people train today with the intent to fight wityh a weapon. Most Wing Chun people use the pole as a form of weight training, and the knives as an exercise with weights; I think this is wrong in a way, as it does not develop the thought of application with the weapon - how to really cut, or disarm an opponent, and how to finish him with your weapon. In essence, the martial intent behind the weapons is lost. Weapons skills here in the USA have degraded into a show; basically everyone wants to dazzle people - but it's empty. In Southern China, one had to be proficient with a pole - to really protect oneself.

Q: Do you think the practitioner's personal training should be different to his 'teaching' schedule as instructor?

Yes. But I do think teaching is also a form of training. When you have learned your art inside out and spent enough time, you begin to move within the context of the art - there fore, everything you do is training. You stop just using arm power when you use a wrench or hammer - your body, your intent - everything is behind your movement. I change my son's diaper, I have to use a Wu Sao (Wing Chun guard hand) to protect myself from his squirting me. I use my steps to walk through crowds, I time my entry into a revolving door. All of these are daily activities that train us.

Q: do you have any general advice you would care to pass on the martial artist?

Yes, don't fall for Chinese marketing BS of "original" this or that! But seriously, everyday is training and find ways to train in everything you do. Try to study with as many people in your field as possible and concentrate on that. Then, get perspectives from outside your area of expertise. I would also say the core of real skill, the DNA of Wing Chun, is body structure. A person wanting to really master the art ought to get some real instruction in that.

Q: What do you consider to be the major changes in the arts since you began your training?

More information is available today, and slowly, all the secrecy is going away. Andreas Hoffman said something good to me, "In the future, there will be no secrets, all that people have to do is train hard and they will have it all". I think that is very true. More and more, teachers today are willing to share their fine points with you through books and videos. Of course, the majority of the stuff out there is mediocre.

Q: Who would you like to have trained with that you have not (dead or alive)?

Yip Man, because he was such a character. I could also ask him whether or not he really taught some of today's people, especially the knives forms I have seen from some individuals. I'd also like to have studied with Yuen Kay Shan because he had a great mind and he was always trying to improve. I've often thought of Leung Jan, because he was an expert in Chinese medicine, as well as a fighter and teacher. I regret not having enough time to visit with Si Bak, Wong Shun Leung, who's recent passing has left a hole in the Wing Chun family. I would also like to travel back in time and meet with the founders of Wing Chun, so I could really discern who was the real founder of Wing Chun.

Q: What would you say to someone who is interested in starting to learn martial arts?

Find something that you like and stick with it. Also, don't be afraid to try something else new if you don't like it. Try to get as much advice from elders and seniors. Always think of how to improve and you eventually will attain a high level of skill. You have to leave techniques and theory behind and really dig deep to reveal the principles and concepts behind your systems. That is real training.

Q: What is it that keeps you motivated after all these years?

I believe that the Wing Chun I practice is a very complete system. It has stimulated my mind to working out the variations, changes and combinations for many, many years. It stimulated my sensitivity to touch and pressure, with timing and directions so that I can develop my tactile sense. The guiding principles always kept me motivated, as this was advice from our ancestors. The spiritual, moral aspects of the art made me want to study Chan (Zen) deeper. The health aspects led me to study Chinese medicine and acupuncture and the body better. Johnny Wong, a fellow Yip Man Wing Chun practitioner once said to me that Yip Man told him, "The great secret in Wing Chun is that it develops your mind and makes you smarter." I think that comment is very telling. If you can apply that mind set to anything else you study, you can be very successful.

Q: Do you think it is necessary to engage in free-fighting to achieve well

Fighting skills in the street? (Please elaborate on what you think are the most important attributes of a fighter)

I used to teach my students that it was speed, strength, accuracy, timing and cruelty to get the job done, and learn how to apply things under stress. I think free fighting is just a means to develop proficiency under stress, but it is not everything. Today, I think that students need to master timing positioning, concepts and principles. That they need the method, as well as the training behind it. Teachers shouldn't teach you theory, but rather they should teach you principles that work. Instructors shouldn't just teach techniques, but the concepts needed to create techniques.

Q: What is your personal training schedule nowadays?

I do a little something everyday. I generally practice the Wing Chun basics - stance work, form, stepping, and basic combinations. For me, Wing Chun is very natural. All movement I do embodies Wing Chun. For example, if I have to change a flat tire, I use body structure, not my shoulders. This is the way it ought to be. I also train a lot with the long pole, as I feel it is the best way to train for power in Wing Chun.

Q: What is your opinion about mixing styles (karate with kung fu, kick boxing with jiu jitsu) Does the practice of one nullify the effectiveness of the other or on the contrary, it can be beneficial for the student?

I am a big advocate of cross training, but I believe you have to have a strong root and basis in one system you identify with. I firmly believe that you win with your basics and what you trained in the most. Not try to be a jack-of-all-trades, simply because you've studied a bit in all of them. For example, in Wing Chun, we finish a guy with our intercepting strikes. They try to strike us, and we intercept their attack with our own attack. Once we land, the opponent's reaction time is off, and we can further strike him to further slow his reaction time. This allows us time to win with multiple blows. If we can't win with that basic requirement, then our training in basics is crap.

Q: What is-was your philosophical basis for your martial arts training?

I believe very much in Taoism and the harmony of Yin and Yang. The philosophy of Yin and Yang extend into the Si Xiang, and later the Ba Gua (8 trigrams), within this, all of the balance of body, mind and spirit are embodied. The core of this philosophy is balance. This is what Wing Chun stresses - neutralizing and balancing, and adjusting to fit in with your opponent. That is the highest skill.

I also think very highly of Chan/Zen. I find myself reading the Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch (Hui Neng) quite a bit, as I find that the essence of Zen is there, as well as the martial arts. One of the passages in the Sutra that struck me was when Hui Neng was confronted by Hui Ming, he taught Hui Ming the essence of the Dharma in one sentence, "Not thinking of good or evil, where is your original face?" Hui Ming became enlightened at these words, and asked, "What other secrets did our master give to you?" Hui Neng said, "If you look into your heart, you know there are no secrets." I think these words can alleviate the frustration one encounters when trying to master a martial art. I also think that Chan is the heart of martial arts - as this is the root of the Wing Chun mind.

Q: Do you have a particularly memorable martial art experience which has remained with you as an inspiration for your training?

I have been so fortunate to see many unique things and study with some real masters.

When Yee Sifu practiced the Hung Ga system, you could really see the expression of the five animals come out. When he did the Tiger form, he looked like a tiger. When he did the crane form, it really looked a crane. Yee was fast and explosive and extremely talented. In my opinion, he was the best Hung Ga man I have ever seen.

Lui Yon Sang at 83 asked me to attack him with a pole, but no sooner than I attacked him with a Biu Gwun (Darting staff), he disarmed me and struck me five times before the 8 foot staff hit the ground. He was amazing!

Kwan Jong Yuen always encouraged me to learn medicine, as he felt that martial arts knowledge was never complete unless you knew Chinese medicine. He felt you had to learn the body, the weak and strong points, the range of motion, and how to cure. Kwan Sifu taught me Dim Mak, and how to really injure a person striking their vital points, but he was also balanced, as he taught me how to treat someone if you injure them. This influenced me to study acupuncture and herbology, and I am a Licensed Acupuncturist with my own clinic today. In fact, most of my teachers were expert at acupuncture or herbs, including Yee Chi Wai, Chan Tai Shan, Lui Yon Sang, and Kenny Gong.

One time, Hawkins Cheung and I were discussing fighting techniques and I threw a punch at him. With one crashing slap, he used Pak Da on me and left an incredible expanding welt on my forearm. I was literally stunned at the power of this small man!

Wang Shin Liu was very accomplished in internal cultivation and stressed the internal feeling and movement of Qi in the practice of martial arts. But he was more than a warrior, he was always soft spoken and a kind gentleman. I was always impressed by his humbleness.

All in all, I have been fortunate to meet so many talented individuals.

Q: After all these years of training and experience, could you explain the meaning of the practice of kung fu?

Kung fu means to cultivate. Every day cultivate a little and improve a little. Soon all will be clear.

Q: How do you think a practitioner can increase his-her understanding of the spiritual aspect of the arts?

I think a person has to get away from all the violence and worry about kicking butt and really have to find the inner wisdom. Avoid three things - greed, anger and stupidity. Don't ever think you're a master or a Buddha. You have to always be a student of life. One thing I don't get is why people want to be teachers - lawyers and doctors have to be practitioners, so should martial artists. What's so great about being a teacher? It's hard work!

Q: Could I ask you what you consider to be the most important qualities of a successful martial artist?

Perseverance and an open mind. A martial artist can't be too smart, or else he won't persevere. If a martial artist is close-minded, he will never have greatness in his expression of the art.

Q: What advice would you give to students on the question of supplementary training?

I think all training is good, but you have to have a goal in mind. For example, if you train with weights, it may enhance your strength, but it doesn't really enhance your knowledge of body mechanics and application of strength in martial arts. I also think supplementary training is to overcome boredom in martial arts training, so I think if a student can cultivate something, then it's good.

One of my students in Long Island, Michael Manganiello, owner of the Ling Nam Siu Lam Academy in Long Island once asked me of the peripheral equipment in Wing Chun like the sand bag, wall bag, iron palm, bag, and spring arm. I told him, basically, this is for dumb students - when a Sifu doesn't like someone or really doesn't want to teach him one on one, he directs a student to a piece of equipment to get him out of his hair! Of course, I'm joking, but there is a truth to what I am saying.

Q: Why is it, in your opinion, that a lot of students start falling away after two-three years of training?

I think because students are of a fickle nature. In this country, things come easy. We all study broadly and not deeply. So it is with studying martial arts. But I also think it is the fault if the instructor for not being a partner with the student and helping a student achieve his goals.

I think the secrecy of the Chinese martial arts is also a detriment and causes much student drop off. When sifu's have a scheme of withholding secrets or levels of training until a certain ceremony is held or a certain sum of money is ascertained, I think this is also a big turn off. Most Chinese know that Chinese hold secrets, and would prefer to study foreign martial arts like Karate, Judo and Tae Kwon Do in Asia. I think this is a laugh for people who hold too many secrets.

I think also, it is a fault of commercial schools offering belts, certificates, testing, phony titles - they're all geared to make a teacher money and inflate the ego. I think tasteless commercialism ruins the martial arts. People look at that and can see right through it. Of course, some people love that external accomplishment, but real martial arts training is better than that commercialism and money making scheming. Wouldn't something that preserves your health and offers you peace of mind be better than all of that commercialism? Of course, a student can always choose whom they want to study with.

Q: Have been times when you felt fear in your training?

I don't think fear is something you have while training - most training never escalates to a point where one is in danger. As long as an instructor teaches a student confidence, I think it will permeate in their demeanor. Fear is something good when you are in a dangerous situation - it heightens the senses and makes the body ready for fight or flight, so I think it is a good thing to be introduced to during training.

Q: What are your thoughts on the future of the martial arts?

I hope martial artists can study the martial arts to avoid delusion, stupidity, greed, envy, anger and hatred. It's a good medium to develop friendship and understand more about life. I'd like to see secrecy abolished and the ego and puffery of stylistic superiority be rid of. I think martial artists need to see others and try to understand people from their context, and avoid the negative politics, which breeds negative thoughts, which lead to destructive actions.

I also believe martial Arts instructors should turn to developing people's minds and body more. There is a great healing system to be tapped within the martial arts. Too often, instructors are concerned with the mundane technical aspects or arguing politics or making bogus claims. We are a great vehicle to helping people fulfill their destiny by nourishing spirit, mind and body.

About Robert Chu, L. Ac., QME, M.S.O.M., Ph.D.

Chinese-Ayurvedic Herbalist - Licensed Acupuncturist

Robert Chu (Chu Sau Lei) began practicing the martial and Chinese healing arts since childhood. Robert is a Licensed Acupuncturist and Herbalist, specializing in the Master Tung and Optimal Acupuncture methods of painless Acupuncture where he effectively treats pain, industrial medicine, sports injuries, and neuromusculoskeletal disorders. He also treats a wide variety of internal diseases including hypertension, hyperlipidemia, diabetes, psoriasis, thyroid disorders, gynecological disorders and side-effects from cancer treatments. He is appointed by the Industrial Medical Council as a Qualified Medical Evaluator (QME).

Robert was formerly affiliated with the St. Vincent Medical Center, Center for Health and Healing, as the first fulltime Acupuncturist on staff and treated cancer patients with Acupuncture, Herbal Therapy Qigong and Tai Chi. Robert is a former faculty member of Samra University of Oriental Medicine in Los Angeles, where he taught acupuncture. He has also taught Tai Chi and Qigong at Loyola Law School. He volunteers weekly at Pasadena's Wellness Community, where he does monthly lectures on Acupuncture and Herbal Therapy for Cancer Patients and a weekly lifestyle/nutrition and Qi Gong class for cancer patients.

Robert also lectures nationally and internationally on Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine to provide continuing education to MD's and Acupuncturists. He is the Association Chairperson for the International Association of Optimal Acupuncture and Clinical Chinese Medicine. He also serves as President of the ITARA - International Tung's Acupuncture Research Association, which he founded in 2005, to preserve, standardize, educate, and research new applications of the Tung family system of Acupuncture with integrity, open sharing, and a goal to help end suffering in fellow beings. He has been decorated as an honorary member of the Finnish Traditional Chinese Medicine Society of Acupuncture and Herbs and a therapist member of the National Register of Acupuncture Therapists in Finland. Robert is also listed as a Master Practitioner of Oriental Bodywork Therapy and Master Practitioner of Tui-Na Manipulations, awarded by the International Association of Tui-Na Therapies in London, England. He has lectured at Emperor's College of TCM, CSOMA, and other functions as a dynamic and entertaining speaker.

In the martial arts world, he specializes in combat application and health aspects with a focus on the Yip Man Wing Chun Kuen system as taught by Hawkins Cheung and the Yuen Kay-San and Gulao Wing Chun Kuen systems as taught by Kwan Jong-Yuen. He is the co-author of Complete Wing Chun, (Charles E. Tuttle Co., Inc, 1998) and has written many articles for Inside Kung Fu, Martial Arts Legends, Inside Martial Arts, Martial Arts Combat Sports and other publications.

In 2004, Robert was awarded a Ph.D. in Buddhist Ayurveda from the non-profit college Ayurveda Healing Arts Institute in Berkeley, California.

Robert can be reached at: 626 345-0441 chusauli@hotmail.com
Oasis Vitality Center 2502 E. Washington Blvd Pasadena, CA 91104


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Often in Chinese martial arts, we are told the origins of the arts are also tied to Zen (Chan in Chinese). In my opinion, although Zen stems from traditional Buddhism, it is a system of liberation from a more religious, faith driven Buddhism, as might be other forms of Buddhism where chanting, rituals, mudras, mantras and sutras may seem more important than experiencing enlightenment for oneself. Zen is a vessel to cross over quickly, and for you to experience the awakened mind directly, as a result, Zen is more of an approach to realizing the mind, a philosophy, more than a religion. In many ways, high level mastery of a martial art is awakening and understanding, much like Zen is to Buddhism.

Often when we study Zen, we are presented with confusing stories, called koans (kung an in Chinese), and seated meditation. As I feel a student needs a roadmap to learning, and often finding a learned master is difficult, perhaps my few words here can be of use.

Although Zen is a teaching that must be realized outside normal transmission and points directly to the mind, for one to get a real understanding of Zen, one should at least have some background in three important sutras. The first of these is the Heart Sutra (Xin Jing in Chinese), also called the Prajna Paramita Sutra. It is very short, yet very profound. Basically the main point of this text is to explain the cross over from ignorance to wisdom. As the sutra says, "Form does not differ from emptiness; emptiness does not differ from form. Form itself is emptiness; emptiness itself is form. So too are feeling, cognition, formation, and consciousness." It is a direct pointing of the mind in an enlightened state. For the advanced martial artist, this profound statement gives us much to contemplate.

The second Sutra one should study is the Diamond Sutra (Jin Gang Jing in Chinese), also called the Vajra Prajna Paramita Sutra. The basis of the Diamond Sutra is the perception of opposites, seeing yin and yang and how it changes. It is said that the 6th patriarch inheritor, Hui Neng, came to enlightenment when he over heard a passage recited from the Diamond Sutra, " One should practice that thought which is nowhere attached". The sutra is of medium length and pretty simple to understand. When one perceives Yin and Yang, and finds oneself are stuck in between them, it is best to step away and perceive the middle way.

Although Bodhidharma (Ta Mo in Chinese) is considered the first patriarch and brought Zen to China, his teachings did not flourish until the time of Hui Neng, the 6th Patriarch. Ta Mo brought the concept to China, but it flowered and flourished under Hui Neng. The 6th Patriarch Altar Sutra is the major text of study and his example points the way. Written in plain language, the story describes Hui Neng, an illiterate woodcutter who inherits the 5th patriarch's robe and bowl (handed down for 5 generations from Bodhidharma) and his life and teachings. I had read this work previously under D. T. Suzuki's, "The Zen Doctrine of No-Mind", but recently reading another version of the book given to me by my student, Randy Lum, I received more insight to the Zen teachings I was exposed to in my youth. I highly recommend "The Sixth Patriarch's Sutra" published by the Buddhist Translation Text Society with commentary by the late master Hsuan Hua, the 45th Dharma successor. Master Hsuan Hua inherited the mind seal from Hsu Yun, the 44th Dharma successor, and the subject of three volumes, "Ch'an and Zen Teachings" written by Charles Luk. All of these works are available for order online, and some of these sutras are readily downloadable off of various internet sites.

With these comprehended, a good foundation is laid. When you have read these deeply and comprehended them, it is best to study other classics including the Surangama Sutra, the Lankavatara Sutra, Vimalakirti Sutra, Song of Enlightenment, Sutra of Complete Enlightenment, and other sutras. These will clarify the koan study, famous in books like "Zen Flesh, Zen Bones" by Paul Reps. From here, one can read the writings of the great masters, from the five schools of Zen that flourished after Hui Neng, Kuei Yang, Lin Chi, Tsao Tung, Yun Men, and Fa Yen.

I hope my few words can point the way to a deep study of comprehending Zen and hope it can help improve your martial arts and life as well.

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Of all figures in Chinese history, the Sixth Patriarch, Hui Neng (638 - 713), is in my opinion amongst the most influential. Even now, the true founder of Chinese Zen (aka Chan in Chinese) Buddhism's influence is far reaching in today's society. Perhaps you may have heard of Hui Neng's teachings. They have been drawn from and popularized in today's books on golf, tennis, shooting, motorcycle maintenance, and even martial arts. Even Bruce Lee read and studied D.T. Suzuki's work entitled "The Zen Doctrine of No-Mind" which is an essay discussing Hui Neng's life and work in the book, "6th Patriarch Platform Sutra". Hui Neng's teaching certainly appears in the "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" and sadly, not given credit for. Hui Neng simplified and interpreted the Buddha's way in a practical light, simply pointing at the realization of self as enlightenment, instead of going through rituals, Zenting, sutra reading, seated meditation and the like to reach enlightenment. In his way, Hui Neng also burned a path for martial arts masters to take the complex and simplify the material, as he did with transplanted Indian Buddhism in China.

Hui Neng became the 6th Patriarch of Zen under unusual and extraordinary circumstances. He started out as a poor illiterate peasant boy from Xin Zhou (present day Guang Dong/Canton) selling firewood. One day, he overheard a man reciting from the Diamond Sutra - "All Bodhisattvas (Compassionate Ones) should develop a pure mind which clings to nothing whatsoever." At these words, Hui Neng became enlightened. So many martial artists, Buddhists, and others seeking the truth, rarely have this much luck to attain enlightenment in just a flash. The stranger who recited this sutra passage encouraged Hui Neng to meet the Fifth Zen Patriarch, Hong Ren, at the Dong Qian Monastery in Huang Mei. Upon meeting the Fifth Patriarch, Hui Neng said, "I am a commoner from Xin Zhou, Guangdong. I have traveled far to pay you respect, and I ask for nothing but Buddhahood."

Hong Ren replied, "You, a barbarian? A southerner (Cantonese), how can you expect to be a Buddha?"
Hui Neng replied, "Although there are northerners and southerners, Buddha nature makes no distinction of north and south. A barbarian may be different from you physically, but there is no difference in our Buddha Nature." Delighted, Hong Ren immediately accepted Hui Neng, but put him to work in the kitchen and splitting fire logs for 8 months.

Getting along in years, the Fifth Patriarch told his followers to express their wisdom in a poem. The one that had true understanding of his original nature (awakening or "Buddha Nature") would be ordained the Sixth Patriarch. Shen Xiu, the most learned and senior disciple wrote the following:

"The body is the bodhi-tree,
The mind is like a bright mirror on a stand;
Take care to wipe it clean from time to time,
to allow no dust to cling."

The poem showed the Fifth Patriarch that Shen Xiu had not yet found his original nature, so he asked him to try again. Shen Xiu could not. He reminds me of certain martial arts theorists of today. The commotion and praise of Shen Xiu's poem drew Hui Neng's attention, who stated he also had a poem. As Hui Neng was illiterate, he had a visiting magistrate write for him:


"Fundamentally no bodhi-tree exists,
Nor the stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is empty from the beginning,
Where can the dust alight?"

The Fifth Patriarch pretended that he wasn't impressed with this poem in front of his long time disciples, but he summoned Hui Neng to his chambers in the middle of the night. The Fifth Patriarch personally read and clarified the Diamond Sutra to Hui Neng, and passed on Bodhidharma's robe and bowl as a symbol of his successorship. Hui Neng was advised to hide in the South and to hide his successorship until the proper time. Imagine your sifu teaching and explaining one form to a newcomer to your gwoon and then declaring him his successor! Just like in Wing Chun, we have a saying, "Don't speak of who is first or last, the one who attains is first!"

As amazing as it seems, fellow monks were jealous and ignorant, and deludely believing that the transmission was material, and decided to get back the robe and the bowl. After pursuing Hui Neng for months, Hui Ming, a former fourth rank General, found him on top of a mountain. When Hui Neng was about to be overtaken by Hui Ming, he threw the robe and the begging bowl on a rock, and quickly hid. When Hui Ming arrived at the rock, he tried to pick up the robe and bowl, but was unable to do so. He cried out, "Lay Brother, I come for the way, not for the robe." Hui Neng emerged from his hiding place and sat down on the rock. Hui Ming showed proper respect and begged him to teach him. Hui Neng said, "Since the object of your coming is the teachings, refrain from thinking of anything and keep your mind empty. I will then teach you." They meditated together for a considerable time, then Hui Neng asked Hui Ming, "When you are thinking of neither good nor evil, at this particular moment, what is your original nature (Buddha Nature)?" As soon as Hui Ming heard this, he instantly became enlightened. Hui Ming then further asked, "Apart from those esoteric sayings and esoteric ideas handed down by the Fifth Patriarch from generation to generation, are there any other secrets?" Hui Neng replied, "What I can tell you is not secret. If you turn your awareness inwardly and you will find what is secret within you." Now, I have to interject here, after achieving the basics, how many of you think there are still some mysterious secrets in your martial arts?

Hui Neng's statement of "what did your original face look like before you were born? " was used as a kong an (aka "koan" in Japanese, a question) from then on. Kong ans represent pointing to truths that can't be understood by logic alone. Hui Neng's koan cuts through concepts and speculations about one's nature. It wakes up the practitioner. Just like in martial arts, who becomes a master is the one who attains first. It has nothing to do with outward ranks, certificates, colored belts and trophies; mastery comes from within you. You can compare the martial arts as a kung an also. What did your martial art look like before you started training?

At the time of the Fifth Patriarch, Zen Buddhism still placed emphasis on Sutra reading and discussions focussing around important Mahayana sutras, such as the Lankavatara Sutra, Maha Parinirvana Sutra, Diamond Sutra, Prajna Paramita Sutra and other works. Also important were conceptual discussions and the thought that gradual attainment of enlightenment would be the end goal. Hui Neng's way differed. It was the beginning of the simple, direct and economical pointing of direct awakening.

Martial arts is like Buddhism in many ways. Sutras are like martial arts forms. Question and answer sessions are like two man sensitivity drills, mantras are like fist sayings, mudras are like salutations and hidden gestures. Many can intellectualize or memorize passages on mastery, but really have not come to true mastery. I'm sure you have all met great martial arts theorists and sutra reading monks, but true mastery is alive and different and in the moment.

Hui Neng taught three concepts that applies to martial arts today, that of unconsciousness, formlessness, and the non-abiding mind. Formlessness means to be in form and yet be detached from it; unconsciousness is meant to have thoughts and yet not to have them, and non-abiding is to have the primary nature of man." (paraphrased from D.T. Suzuki's "The Zen Doctrine of No Mind"). Can we not see the liberation from the fixed that Hui Neng passed down to us? We get stuck in the different facets of martial arts training, but in using them, you must be alive in the moment. Then you will have attained mastery.

Hui Neng founded the pragmatic, Zen school so that the Chinese could understand Zen. Some referred to his teachings as the "school of sudden enlightenment". His teachings showed that sudden enlightenment was possible, given the right teacher and method. Hui Neng's teaching emphasize non-duality and oneness of everything. After his death, his teachings were collected and classified as the only Chinese Buddhist sutra, called "Liu Zhu Tan Jing" ("The Sixth Patriarch's Platform Sutra", also known as the "Sutra of Hui Neng" or the "Platform Sutra" in English). His school of Sudden Awakening is the major school of Chinese Buddhism that spread abroad to Korea, Japan, Vietnam and now all over the world. Hui Neng defined seated Zen meditation as: "In the midst of all good and evil, not a thought is aroused in the mind - this is called Zen. Seeing into one's original nature, not being moved at all - this is Zen." He taught that Zen should be practiced at all times, not just during formal sitting. He stressed the attitude of mind that is most important, and not the physical posture, because truth can be found seated, standing, walking, lying down, or even practicing martial arts forms. Taken further to modern times, these concepts can help us in business, driving, surfing the internet, writing, and any other endeavor.

The most important point in the teaching of the Zen lies in introspection, to look inwardly. To illustrate, let us take the analogy of punching. We know that when a punch lands, it should have devastating effect on our opponent. If we engross too much on the outer appearance, style's requirements, mechanics, timing, positioning and force of a punch, rather than being in the moment of a punch when it is correct to do so, we can rarely punch correctly and in the moment. If we can just punch, then that is real mastery.

We live in a time of many "masters". In Hui Neng's time, many suggested they were enlightened, but when a truly enlightened man came, no one could tell the difference between real and fake. The situation is pretty much the same today, where everyone claims to be masters of the martial arts, yet cannot master themselves, nor use their martial arts to take them as a way of finding wisdom to cross over from ignorance. A martial artist who develops his art to a high level should know that the principles of his art have their purpose and are without limit.

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